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Simon T
Posts: 6053
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Posted:
19 Dec 2007 at 10:51 |
I've been meaning to blog on this for a while and have just managed it.
When compiling presentations at 3am for the Scots Trad Music Awards you become very aware of the parallels between media no-how and successful genres within trad music. The likes of Gaelic song and folk bands have in the main a very good web presence and it is easy to get info (pictures, audio files) of artists when you need it. This is a great resource for newspapers, promotors etc and enables these entities to promote and engage with these scenes.
The reason I am writing this blog is more about the genres that are not doing this and the parallels with their lack of publicity/success. The areas that jumped out at me were Scots Song, Scottish Dance Bands and to a lesser extent Strathspey and Reel Societies. In my opinion these 3 genres are struggling to make any headway in encouraging folks to come out and listen, join in, buy CDs etc and while the web is not the be and end all, it is definitely a very good start to raising public profile.
It seems to me that hardly anyone is bothering to sort this side of operations out. It is very important that the scenes survive in Scottish music as they have so much to offer our culture. In my opinion we are now at the emergency stage of saving these genres and it has to come down to individuals wanting it. We need to see band leaders, singers, organisations all creating proper websites for themselves, using the likes of myspace, YouTube to get the word out. It is so easy nowadays to do this with not a lot of knowledge. I suppose though even if it did take a lot of learning we need people to get off their backsides and read a manual on how to upload to the web. There should be a whole network of Scots songs websites which possibly could be coordinated through the Traditional Music and Song Association, a network of Scottish Dance Band coordinated through the National Association of Accordion and Fiddle Clubs/ Royal Scottish Country Dance Society) sites all with photos, audio files, biogs. Lets promote these guys or they're going to disappear.
Strathspey and Reel Societies don't even have a national association which shares news between them. They have a few websites but no real unity.
In the end it has to come to down to the community - can they be bothered or are they happy for it to die out. I hope that there are folks out there that don't feel out and will embrace the opportunities that are in front of them.
http://simonthoumire.vox.com/ |
bechet
Posts: 1301
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Posted:
19 Dec 2007 at 11:06 |
| Simon An interesting variation helping authors is to be found on www.lulu.com The revenue to the writer is a distinctive feature -80% received |
Simon T
Posts: 6053
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Posted:
19 Dec 2007 at 11:16 |
That's very interesting. I like the term "Products from a million creators". There are so many options out there from myspace to sonicbid to youtube to facebook and it is not hard to go about sorting this out.
We do need people to do this for free though. There is never going to be enough money to pay folks to do this. We need to encourage people to start uploading because they love the music. |
EFCinfo
Posts: 1429
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Posted:
19 Dec 2007 at 11:17 |
"can they be bothered or are they happy for it to die out."
In many cases, I think it's the latter. I get the impression that they're not to keen on recruiting too many new members..at least, not those who might offer new ideas, updated repertoires, or changes in direction. The society I attend is very stuck in its ways. The leader has continued since its inception some 40 odd years ago..I think. The secretary has been there for as long as I recall and she sends out info by phone or typed out from an old hand typewriter. We were reluctantly forced to appoint a treasurer to handle our finances when we recently recorded a CD. Apart from that, things just slowly jog along and we play occasional concerts in church halls. I've been trying to encourage one or two of them to perform a short support at EFC for Burns Night but no body has responded so far. I'll not hold my breath!
There are one or two very well run societies too though as I'm sure you'll know. However, we could do with some form of national association.
Unfortunately, many of these societies WILL die out in the near future but this shouldn't have to mean the end of this type of venture. It would be good if new societies could replace them..perhaps with a more varied repertoire to reflect more accurately what's happening today. Not that we should discard all the old tunes either , of course.
They are very useful(the societies), in my opinion, for getting people together to play. Not everyone has time to form a band and they may not enjoy going to pubs or have the confidence. It's a great way to build up your repertoire and has been (for me) invaluable as far as improving my sight reading skills is concerned.
Of course, we need to attract more young people but surely this can be achieved by a fresher approach and a more varied repertoire? I can't see many of the older societies changing though and I feel we'll just have to start new ones from scratch. |
Simon T
Posts: 6053
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Posted:
19 Dec 2007 at 11:33 |
| JAJ I agree although most of the time when a society dies out it doesn't restart. I suppose what is needed is to elect folk to boards with energy. A good leader show know the correct time to stand down and give someone else with new ideas a shot. |
EFCinfo
Posts: 1429
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Posted:
19 Dec 2007 at 11:38 |
This only works when the societies agree to have elections. Many of them are run in a very autocratic fashion, sadly. ;-(
I was thinking more along the lines of starting something new before the existing ones die out. Unfortunately, I can't see many of existing organisations allowing a seamless metamorphosis from the "old to new" from within.. |
Jack Campin
Posts: 1129
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Posted:
19 Dec 2007 at 14:04 |
I just looked around YouTube for Scots singers and it was much worse than I expected. All I could find was a few seconds of Joe Aitken and Geordie Murison, in a setting which didn't project a very positive image. All there is of Rod Paterson is him backing an American singer.
Look for Jock Duncan or Scott Gardiner and you don't get anything very musical...
Come on, everybody. We can do better than this. |
robnite
Posts: 1281
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Posted:
19 Dec 2007 at 15:19 |
Well... I have my own website and myspace site, but since I'm virtually unknown, then it doesn't really count for much.
www.knightfolk.com
www.myspace.com/bobknightfolk |
Simon T
Posts: 6053
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Posted:
19 Dec 2007 at 18:34 |
Not at all Rob - at least you have made an attempt to get something up there - well done.
Jack, you're totally right. There must be loads of amateur video footage from the likes of Keith, Kirriemuir etc of these guys that could go up. YouTube is an amazing thing for rasing awareness. From my own experience in my video clip, I meet folks all the time who have caught it who might not have heard or saw me playing (I'm not saying they like it...) |
Ballardcat
Posts: 1
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Posted:
20 Dec 2007 at 23:15 |
| Regarding Strathspey & Reel Societies, it sounds a lot like the mantra of Protestan church lay leaders: you can do anything you want to with it after I die. The only way to circumvent that attitude is to start your own society, with a rotation in leadership built in. |
Onny
Posts: 12843
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Posted:
20 Dec 2008 at 10:50 |
It's been worth waiting a year to resurrect this thread.
I just love Simon T's "media no-how" Brilliant. |
Karen B
Posts: 13
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Posted:
20 Dec 2008 at 22:53 |
I think the problem may be generational. I offer to be a digital elf to the elders in my groups who are not web/email/forms savvy, can't do pdf's of tunes/announcements etc and even then they're not keen. Having taught my dad about his PC, it's definitely a steep learning curve for older people. Trying to learn anything on the older side is hard and sometimes you lose face because you're bewildered. Take playing the fiddle as an adult. That's a humbler. I think some of the Song, Dance and Strathspey and Reel Societies are done/run by some of our older people . It's frustrating that they are wary of digital stuff because often these people have the deepest knowledge and most understanding of the music, specially about the orders, tempos and tune sets for dancing and repetoire.
I've offered to make web sites for my group and even they pay lip service to idea, it hasn't happened yet. The idea of changing their usual system, which they've got under control and have done for years, is overwhelming and not really appealing. They feel like they're losing control.
The answer may be to develop ( with some funding body) a template web site that is easy to replicate and update and has a set number of sections that cover the general info needing to be put out there for most groups/artists, maybe meeting dates, guest teachers, dance dates, history of the group and tunes lists with a simple content management system that allows them to update text and replace pdfs and show/hide the sections they don't need.
The web can be a showcase/repository of knowledge as well as an info distribution point - a record of what has been done and who did it. I think if the focus and sell was to create historical record and a showcase rather than a fussy pile of busy work for the group runner, it might get more appealing. They think 'what am I letting myself in for - I'll be doing this group til I die, but I don't want to take on a web site' , but everybody loves to get public credit! It's probably beyond most individual participants in a group to take on creating a full web site, but if there was a easily filled template with a text based WSIWYG CMS rather than a html editor (now I know I lost everybody) it would be easier.
Forgive the tech talk in a music forum |
Posts: 38
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Posted:
21 Dec 2008 at 10:31 |
I'm pretty sure these exist Karen. I'm a bit out of date but seem to recall that Voluntary Arts Network had developed just what you're describing - template based websites tailored to arts organisations and not requiring any html knowledge.
http://www/voluntaryarts.org |
akhenaton
Posts: 770
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Posted:
21 Dec 2008 at 11:27 |
Much of traditional music has been in existence for several hundred years, any "improvements" we make to the marketing of that music are likely to be viewed in twenty years time as the exact opposite, when the music has been surgically enhanced to appeal to ever changing tastes.
The music will never be "lost" by lack of marketing...........but marketing means that its eternal magic and appeal may be so diluted that it becomes just another branch of the music business.
Leave the bloody music alone , it doesn't need the help of folk who simply don't understand what they are meddling with.
To make traditional music more popular, change society.......not the music! |
Mairi
Posts: 1008
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Posted:
21 Dec 2008 at 13:52 |
akhenaton
That is the most succinct, well-articulated presentation of your philosophy on this topic. Your various contributions reveal your thoughts on our culture and music, and they are always worth hearing.
Whatever our respective views on this forum, it is helpful for all of us to be reminded of this stance - while probably not a majority view, it is nevertheless a very sincerely held one by many. |
Scott-
Posts: 637
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Posted:
21 Dec 2008 at 14:04 |
akhenaton has a good point. Strathspey and Reel Societies formed and survived without the internet. There are lots of young musicians coming up who will probably be looking for a Strathspey and Reel Society once they've got married had their 2.2 kids.
Dance bands exist because lots of people want to dance to them and that seems to be on the increase.
As for older people not wanting to get too involved with web. sites etc. I think they would just rather be playing music. |
Nìall Beag
Posts: 1666
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Posted:
21 Dec 2008 at 16:22 |
Ahkenaton,
I think you're overinterpreting a bit -- Karen's just echoing what Simon said last year about the lack of information out in the big wide world.
When they first invented the newspaper, do you think people were up in arms about an announcement in the classifieds about a gig, and how these changed the nature of the music? Of course not, because it doesn't.
We're just talking about making sure people who want to find out about it can, which I can't see as anything but a good thing.... |
akhenaton
Posts: 770
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Posted:
21 Dec 2008 at 16:45 |
Thank you "Goldielocks".......I was really touched by your kind response xx
It's a lot mair than jist music.......Dammit!!
Thanks tae Scott and Neall as well.......but nae kisses!! |
Tattie Bogle
Posts: 2177
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Posted:
21 Dec 2008 at 18:49 |
Hey hey, enough of this ageist stuff! My Dad is 91 and sends me emails! I myself am retired but had to learn how to use IT while I was working: and got minimal training in it. Came back from a 3-week holiday one day to be told "we're not using paper notes any more: it's all on the computer"! You should have seen some of the typing!
Maybe I haven't set up my own website yet, but give me time and I'll do it, even though you might not want to listen to my music! |
Karen B
Posts: 13
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Posted:
22 Dec 2008 at 01:04 |
Maybe it's a control thing rather than a generational thing that stops groups having web sites. If the leaders aren't into web stuff, then maybe it doesn't happen.
I was responding to Simon saying that it would be easier to know what's going on with societies and stuff if they have some kind of web presence that tells people both in and outside their existing group events, history, tunes etc . I'm not suggesting changing the music in any way.
Groups can get stronger if new people join. It's interesting that akhenaton would take what I was saying as 'marketing' and marketing means 'changing the music'. Having a web site doesn't force anybody to perform wearing a bikini or plug in a key-tar!. Both of those are good ideas, though, if you're into marketing your Scottish Country Dance band.
The Blackford Fiddlers have a good website, informational with loads of tunes and midi files. I don't think that changes their playing or what they play. It just shows they exist. I'm very grateful that they share all that written out music.
http://www.blackfordfiddlers.org.uk/>
I just went to the Edinburgh Shetland Fiddlers meeting because they have a website and it was great - they were very welcoming.
http://www.e-s-f.fsnet.co.uk/>
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