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Jack Campin
Posts: 1129
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 11:21 |
I seem to have directed somebody towards what didn't turn out to be a good time:
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=100171
Any ideas on why this happened? I'm not very chatty to newcomers at sessions myself but I think I do better than that.
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JAJ
Posts: 10021
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 11:47 |
I've not actually been to this one but there might be some clues from this gentleman's own comments.
eg "Drawing up a stool and saying hello"
This is sometimes sufficient but, in many cases, a more formal or fuller introduction is required. Some sessions are rather close knit and like a group of friends having a conversation. So, just "barging in"(I'm not saying he did this) or "interrupting the conversation" might not be appropriate in certain circumstances.
It's usually a good idea to fully "suss things out" before making a move. Sometimes, you might come to the conclusion that it's best not to take part on a particular occasion.
"Standing up and singing a traditional Australian song" may not be the best of ideas either in what is probably a traditional Scottish/Irish tune session. There might be "a window" when this is possible but, again, you have to carefully choose your moment.
Having said all that, there are lots of sessions where musicians don't say too much or appear to be too cheerful. It doesn't always mean that they are unfriendly.
In my experience, if you "go with the flow" when visiting a strange session, you are usually made welcome. It's a mistake to try and change the session to suit you or to "force" your own music/songs into the proceedings unless invited to do so. If the style of music etc doesn't really suit or you don't know the tunes then the session probably isn't for you in the first place.
Inspector John J (Folk Police) |
Simon T
Posts: 6053
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 11:54 |
| Entering a session is a difficult thing especially when you're doing something different. They're usually made up of cliques (10s company and the new guys a crowd mentality). It usually helps if your name is Michael McGoldrick or some other staturesque person. |
spike
Posts: 1785
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 11:58 |
Aye.. it's a funny thing.
Have been to a couple of sessions in Edinburgh (
the same place - different occasions)which have made me feel as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit. Surely the whole ethos should be to encourage folk to play ? Cliques and the ' guarding of one's wee space' shouldn't enter into it . Or , to start another argument, are the session leaders or regulars treating them as gigs? :)
I'd like to emphasise that I arrive with the appropriate degree of humility - I'm only there occasionally, so just looking for a tune or song , and wouldn't dream of barging in.!
Mibbe it's just me... |
Stoosh
Posts: 504
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 12:00 |
| Folk Police - now there's a bangin choon! |
CD
Posts: 1471
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 13:07 |
I used to wonder about what was considered an acceptable approach to joining a session and like everything in life, a few social skills should be applied much like meeting anyone for the first time and being invited to join a conversation.
Listen first, always a good thing.
If occasionally sessioneers have been a bit spiky it was probably because they've had their fingers burned in the past by those joining who either had their own agenda eg showing off for their mates/impressing the opposite sex OR they were just rubbish anyway or dull at great length.
It takes skill to play traditional music and listening to others is a good start. I'm afraid I hang my guitar up at sessions, there's far too many good players out there. Thankfully I've spared myself of the humiliation of finding out the hard way!
Good session at 'Bells on last Friday night BTW. |
JAJ
Posts: 10021
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 13:12 |
| Well said, Sergeant. ;-) |
tubeman
Posts: 772
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 13:17 |
| Congratulations on your promotion John. |
Raghnall dearag
Posts: 238
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 14:24 |
| The sessions I play in are very accommodating, largely down to the diverse talents of the musicians. I believe, however, it is down to the individual to know where to draw the line. If, perhaps, you are not up to the level of those hosting or do not play the same tunes you should not attempt to take over what is after all a regular session. |
Onny
Posts: 12843
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 15:29 |
| I've never been in the Ben when anyone has sung. It's just not that sort of session. |
Jack Campin
Posts: 1129
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 15:51 |
Doing one or two songs is not "taking over". Go to a folk session anywhere in the world and you'll usually be asked "can you sing something from your country?" - for somebody here to have a problem with a single Australian song is a bit weird.
I can't think of a single purely instrumental session that wouldn't be improved by lightening up a bit and having the occasional song. Most pub-goers don't want an entire evening of unrelieved diddly-di. The Aussie said his number went down well with the punters.
In any case, the newcomer can hardly be blamed for not knowing the house rules if nobody spoke to him. I usually tell new arrivals at Bell's on Sunday what range of music generally gets played there - I never tell people they can't do Irish session tunes, singer-songwriter or country but don't explicitly mention them either.
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JAJ
Posts: 10021
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 16:03 |
" lightening up a bit and having the occasional song"
One (wo)man's light is another (wo)man's darkness.
"Most pub-goers don't want an entire evening of unrelieved diddly-di."
We get back to the thorny issue of whether a session is for the benefit of the participants or the punters. If the latter, then they might prefer the odd original song in Sandy Bells on a Sunday afternoon or even a few Irish tunes. After all, they go down well there every other night of the week. ;-) |
Rob_Steele
Posts: 58
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 16:16 |
| I think the key here is that each session is different. The Ben Nevis is not a song session and it is very rare to hear songs there. However, my experiences of it were never unwelcoming at all...maybe he caught people on a bad day! |
westmail
Posts: 615
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 17:14 |
| Every time I've been in the Ben I've sung a couple of songs and had good order and a friendly welcome. It's always polite to ask if anyone objects to you singing( A weegie accent can help soften resistance). Those that find it a pain take the chance to go to the cludgie/bar or outside for a smoke until the whole nasty business is over. I also find tune sets breaking up a predominately song session a welcome change. If "session etiquette" is a major problem then your life is charmed! |
Alistair C
Posts: 855
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 17:15 |
I have not been down to the Ben in the last few months much but will certainly be back over Easter. I wouldn't want to speak for those that were there. None of us really know the circumstances of what happened with this guy.
I certainly found it an intimidating environment when I first went along - but it was the first session I ever tried to join in and I was not particularly good. People can certainly be protective over their session, not just here but all over.
I don't think it is necessary to go through full formal introductions in the Ben but asking if you can join is probably a good start rather than just jumping in. As was pointed out above the Ben really is not a song session. I think in all the years I went I can count the amount of songs I have heard on two hands (and I sung one of them). It is a very fast tunes session. That is just what it is. I find when I go to a session for the first time I tend to be quite quiet and would not dream of bursting into song if no one else had sung a song all night.
It is a shame this guy had a bad experience. I try to say hello to folk when they join a session for the first time but I must confess to sitting there at times waiting for someone else to, particularly if they are not next to me. |
Alistair C
Posts: 855
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 17:19 |
And your songs are always the highlight of any session Mick. :-)
I have always found the occasional song in the Ben to be a nice change at times. It is significant though how rare it is in that I can remember the individual occasions when it has happened. It is not the sort of session where you will end up getting songs a night - more like one song every three months or so. |
CD
Posts: 1471
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 17:35 |
Sessions also develop a kind of character based on who turns up. One of the reasons that LFC Mafia have never gone for the idea of a session is that you've got to rely on a number of people to turn up week in week out and to be honest, it's hard enough trying to programme club nights without having to deal with all that hassle!
There has to be a fineline between presenting good music and detracting numpty's who think Don McLean & Kate Bush are Folk musicians but to be honest I'm not sure what 'it' is.
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boozer
Posts: 105
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 20:44 |
| sounds to me that this guy is a total belter,,,,,,,musicians can be wary---there are plenty session wreckers around---as with any session just bide your time and u will fit in fine!----The Ben Nevis is a great open session ---long may it last!! |
Alistair C
Posts: 855
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 22:01 |
You have such a flowery way with words boozer!
Tell it to them straight. :-) |
the cat
Posts: 656
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Posted:
26 Mar 2007 at 23:05 |
| Hello. It's a shame when someone has a bad experience at a session but there is usually two sides to a story. The Nevis crew probably would have seen the incident in a very different light. |
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