Edinburgh and Lothians branch of the TMSA discussed at their recent AGM the possibility of recommencing a monthly Singers' session, and the Royal Oak landlady has very kindly allowed us the use of the downstairs lounge for this purpose. (That's Royal Oak, Infirmary St, Edinburgh).
Time 8pm - 11 pm. All singers welcome. We hope to continue with further sessions on the 2nd Tuesday of each month but will assess the response. This first one will be close to Christmas, but no need to sing carols or other Christmas songs unless you want to!

Would Gaelic songs be welcome?

The post says "All singers welcome". So, I'm sure there wil be no problem with Gaelic songs.

Tunes might be a different matter.

Ceart gu leor, Rena.
JAJ, no disrespect to the tunesters, but we are doing this in response to requests from some quarters for a session dedicated to songs only. Instruments can of course be used to accompany songs if the singer so wishes.

So, not even an opportunity for a solo spot, eg. a slow air on fiddle, waltz on the accordion or whatever?

In that case, the singers can be left to provide their own accompaniment.

As many already do JAJ.

Fair enough but I can just imagine the amount of "bleating" there'd be if tune players attempted to impose a "No Singers" rule at their sessions.

I'd like to come along to this, but I can't make the first one (I'll be belting out local carols in a South Yorkshire vilage pub - a fine tradition). Anyway, I hope the Royal Oak session is successful and carries on (I'll be there on 11 January if it's on).

Russ

Why don't you organise a tune-players session on the (1st? 3rd? 4th? )Tuesday of the month JAJ?

If I did, there's no way I'd object to anyone having an occasional song or two(maybe, quite a few more) even if the session was primarily aimed at tune players.
However, there are, as TB observes, quite a few tune sessions already. A very small number of these have become "de facto" exclusively tune sessions but I've yet to encounter one....ever... where songs have been prohibited altogether.

Of course, there are also any number of sessions where it's mostly all singing too with just a few odd tunes here and there. This is actually the dominant type of session although some will continue to claim this isn't the case.

I've always maintained that a session should be run according to the wishes of those whoever set it up and as such I have no right to complain or interfere. So, I wish the new "singaround" well.

I quite understand that some singers would appreciate an environment away from the main hustle and bustle where they can perform songs in the company of like minded and appreciative people. However, this is also an ideal opportunity for an instrumentalist to play something a little bit different which he or she might not have the opportunity to do in a regular tune session. It might be a "show piece" (for those who are that way inclined), a tune from another genre or country, or just a nice slow air or waltz.

Gallus, you more or less suggest that if I'm not happy I should start up my own session. This is very true but this particular session has been introduced by the Edinburgh and Lothians TMSA who I feel have missed an opportunity on this occasion.
Let me remind you all of what the stated aims of the organisation are

"The aim of the Traditional MUSIC and Song Association of Scotland (TMSA) is to promote, present and preserve the traditional MUSIC and song of SCOTLAND."
(Emphasis mine)

Of course, they ought to be encouraging singing and singers of Scots song. However, they should also be providing an opportunity for instrumentalists too within the same type of environment even if not many of them wish to take advantage. It's not enough just to say "There are plenty of tune sessions, anyway!"

The aims of TMSA do not necessarily mean that every session being run by it / members requires to be open to both singers and instrumentalists - -- ?

Workshops and competitions are usually specific - fiddle, bothy ballads, instrumental pairs, mixed instrument, traditional singing etc so it is perfectly acceptable for sessions to target different abilities and preferences - for example a slow instrumental session or a beginners' fiddle session, a ballads singing session, unaccompanied singing session, harmony singing session, open session, Cape Breton session - - -OK not all of these examples would be found under the TMSA umbrella!

I am a singer who also plays a bid of fiddle; when I attend sessions I prefer an intermediate-pace session with my fiddle - either fiddles only or a mixed instrument / non competetive-type session (!). I also love slow air sessions (few and far between! where I am perfectly happy just to listen.

My preferred singing session will be probably a fairly small group of like minded people who are into unaccompanied ballads, and traditional Scottish songs, harmonising, and joining in choruses as appropriate. I am as happy to listen in such a session as to sing, find it very rewarding - and for me it would be spoiled if there were contemporary songwriters or players with instruments accompanying, or doing tunes. (NB some of my best friends are contemporary songwriters and / or players!)

I have got to a stage in my life where I know what I prefer and I will seek it out - if it is offered.
I am sure that like minded players sometimes get to a place where they are 'in a groove' and their tunes are flying - well singers too can create a similar magical feeling as they listen and respond to each other. There is a big difference between going along to an open, general session to take a turn which might be totally unrelated to what the person before you has played or sung, and being part of a like minded group which is building an emotional edifice through their singing (or playing) that will live on in their hearts and memories!

"it would be spoiled if there were contemporary songwriters or players with instruments accompanying"

Well, apparently the above will be permissable as long as it's a song. Also, there is still no guarantee that in a session such as this that there will be continuity or that the chosen songs will necessarily be related to each other.

Let's go back a bit on this:
"Bleating" - yes well, pots..........kettles........black...........JAJ (Bleater extraordinaire + bar!)
And talk of perversity: you were the one who, when recently invited to play a tune on one or other of your instruments, and having gone on at length about how the session was mainly for singers, decided to sing a cappella!!! (and your singing and the song were just fine).

Newman, delighted to see you in January: would you have anything to do with the fantastic workshops I went to last August in Sidmouth, where we played and sang the carols of S Yorkshire and Derbyshire?

The decision to name it a "Singers' Session" was a conscious and deliberate choice, in response to demand from singers for such a session, to fill what appears to be a "gap in the market". This does not make us any less supportive of the TMSA aims of supporting Scottish music (song, after all, being part of the music!) I personally am as much an instrumentalist as a singer, and can enjoy any type of session, whether it be solely instrumental, mixed, or solely singing. I know of one session where instruments are BANNED: we have not gone to that extreme (although in fact, you'll hear some of the the best harmony singing on this planet at said sessions!)

And if you don't like the idea, you don't have to come: it'll only be once a month, and there are hunners of other sessions out there to choose from. So please stop playing Devils' Advocate and questioning our motives: it's tedious and unnecessary. I particualrly resent the implication that we are not supporting the aims of the TMSA. tho' I suppose that was a predictable response from you JAJ.

Dear JAJ,
there is quite a difference between the type of session - instrumental / singing or mixed - where people go along to present what they can do, what they have learned / or mastered perhaps for this particular gathering - and the type of session, often spontaneous (but not necessarily so) where people go to share and contribute if they can, whether that be tunes or songs - or both.
The type of session where participants listen to each other, latch onto the theme(s), perhaps offer another view of that theme or a counter to it - they type of session where participants have not come along armed with the numbers they intend to do come what may, relevant or not!
I know many people are perfectly happy with that sort of gathering, and it is probably how most of us started off - but for some of of us our souls crave more - -- our contribution is to the 'whole', is not about self - we listen to what each person is doing, there may be silence after a song or tune that was so moving it calls for a pause - -- so often at the sort of session I think you are expecting there are people waiting poised to launch into their piece before the last strains of a gorgeous slow air have faded (if slow airs are even allowed - -- !) so please do not deny us our occasional solace from the 'same old' type of session - as TB says - you don't need to attend!

GM,

You are expecting an awful lot from this session and I do hope you are not disappointed. The very things which you seek, the magical moments, latching on to a theme or whatever will be made more difficult due to the unnecessary regulations and regimentation which will probably prevail. I am sure that many of those who do attend will have prepared a song for the occasion. Of course, more experienced singers may not require do so but, perhaps, you are suggesting that novices shouldn't be welcome either?

"and the type of session, often spontaneous (but not necessarily so) where people go to share and contribute if they can, whether that be tunes or songs - or both. "

What you refer to above is probably more likely to occur within a general session. I fear you've got the two mixed up but, nevertheless, I wouldn't pin your hopes on the one which is being planned here unless you have some inside knowledge, of course.

TB, of course you are supporting the aims of the TMSA, albeit selectively, and your stamina is much admired by many.

I know that the aims of the TMSA - as the name confirms - are to promote both music and song, but that doesn't mean that every session organised or attended by TMSA members has to incorporate both.

It seems that members of the Branch have asked for a Singers Session, and that is what they are going to try.

As TB said in her opening post, they will asses the response - what more can the Branch do?

Thanks Portree and GM: it seems one is always to be shot down in flames by a certain person before the plane has even got off the ground.

Best of luck with the singing session. I wish it well.

interesting thread on Mudcatcafe forum, 'secrets of a good singaround'

"Newman......would you have anything to do with the fantastic workshops I went to last August in Sidmouth, where we played and sang the carols of S Yorkshire and Derbyshire?"

Not me, Guv (TB) - regrettably, haven't been to Sidmouth for a long time. I did live in Yorkshire village carol territory for many years, though, and, not wanting to miss the singing, have a week's holiday in Sheffield every December. Must be one of the best opportunities for uplifting community singing anywhere.

http://www.villagecarols.org.uk/