Obviously there are many motivational factors, but perhaps these can be discussed in this thread.

Some to start off:

1. Habitual folk club / concert goers - attend no matter what the act.
2. Admirer's of a particular act - visit club only because this group is playing.
3. Admirer's of a certain type of instrument - attend because they have been alerted by, e-mail, forum, poster.....that the act will feature this.
4. Word of mouth - how strong is this?
5. Posters....only good if you were aware of the group to begin with, so it acts as a reminder.
6. Ticket price?
7. Location?
8. Atmosphere.....
9.Institution (Phil & Ally) "oh we go every year,
I'd feel there was something wrong if I missed it"..

What is the most effective form of advertising for folk concerts?

Answers on the back of a raffle ticket.

If you don't want to think about it too hard in general - just be specific - what makes or has made YOU go to a gig?

David

You missed out weather.

Right, so weather is something to factor in - best to sell as many tickets as you can in advance.

For me - I go to see the act if I like what they do, or think I might like what they do.
I will also attend my local club to socialise with the friends I have made there over the years.
I also go out of loyalty to the club - just to support it and give back a bit of what it has given me.
I also trust the committee to book good acts - so I will go along even if I haven’t heard of the guest.
I also go along as it gives me a chance to sing a few songs and learn the occasional new one.
Weather doesn’t put me off attending unless the snow is particularly bad.
Tiredness after a particularly hard day can tempt me to have an early night rather than go out.
Equally, a stressful day can lead to me going out, just to unwind.
If I have a commitment early the next morning I might also choose to stay at home.
So there are some things the club can do to tempt me - but there are also many factors out with their control.

Well, I would go more often if I could get there and back by public transport!

OK, David. Firstly, folk clubs and concerts are two different beasts although I agree some people might only visit a folk club because of a particular act...so to them, it's more like a concert.

People do visit clubs for different reasons. Those who *regularly* visit or are members of a particular club do so mainly because they like a night out and happen to enjoy the music..usually.... . Mind you, they soon tell you if they don't and often presume that they have the right to dictate what happens. :-)

The above tended to happen to a greater extent in the past and still does in smaller clubs and/or rural areas.

These days and especially so in the larger cities, folk club attenders tend to have more sophisticated and particular tastes. Therefore, you'll find that they will only come along to see a particular artist or band.

Sometimes, this will happen out of popularity, respect, word of mouth(as has been suggested), novelty factor, or ...quite often... the "rent a crowd" factor where the artist's pals will come along to offer support.

Many of the smaller clubs operate mainly for the benefit of floor singers and musicians who sometimes will actually complain if too many guests are booked or they take up too large a part of the evening. In these clubs, a lot of people(not all) go to "be heard" rather than to listen.

So, to sum up, folk clubs and concerts are different. Also, there are several different arrangements to be found in the folk club world.

While clubs like Edinburgh and Leith both have a good regular support, their continued success really depends on being able to attract outsiders and visitors. So, the choice(s) of guest(s) is always going to be crucial. Especially, as there is always lots of musical competition in the city.
Some other clubs are fortunate enough to have a good regular "local" audience many of whom might not even be "die hard" folk enthusiasts but just looking for a good night out. Of course, I'm not suggesting for a moment that these clubs book inferior artists but only that this aspect, i.e choice of guest is a less important consideration for their audiences.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, and that we feel is an important factor: consistency.
Happily our Brookfield Nights events sell out every time because we keep standards high and never let them drop. That way, we can charge anything from £10 to £15 per ticket and that means we can afford to pay quality acts to come and play for us even though the venue is only 120-capacity.
Making sure standards are kept consistently high means that our regulars trust our booking policy and come out to see acts they might never even have heard of.
So, we have had quality Scottish names such as Jock Tamson's Bairns, Michael Marra, Back of The Moon, etc as well as more eclectic acts such as The Bills, In Taberna, Huun-Huur-Tu and Lollo Meier Quartet, to old-time and bluegrass greats such as Laura Boosinger, Beverly Smith & Carl Jones, The Crooked Jades, The Wilders, and even the odd more jazzy thing such as The Classic Jazz Orchestra with their tribute to the music of Jelly Roll Morton.
We don't put posters out and barely need to advertise. Word of mouth always does the trick.
We have now a similar situation with regulars who attend our Acoustic Music Nights in Kilbarchan, happy to come out on either Tuesdays or Thursdays to hear music that is invariably new to them, and that has involved singer-songwriters of the calibre of Chris Smither, Peter Mulvey, Darden Smith, Mark Erelli and Alastair Moock and bands like The Foghorn Stringband, Mark Atkinson Trio and Iain Morrison & The Sleep Cafe Band.
Happily the people who attend these events at Brookfield and Kilbarchan are not particularly interested in knowing the act beforehand.
Half of the fun for them is taking a gamble and venturing into the unknown as there is a certain amount of healthy excitement attached when that is how it's done.
The spin-off for acts is considerable.
If Darden Smith is playing to a room full of people who are not necessarily Darden Smith fans, he stands muich better chance of selling a batch of CDs and that is our experience across the board, with an average 25% of the attendance taking home a CD.
In order to maintain standards, we watch out for something new thing all the time. We just got back from a trip to Dublin to check out up and coming band Beoga as we heard great things about them and wanted to see if they lived up to expectations, before booking them.
They were very, very good.

Well I wish I knew the answer as far as the far north is concerned. After 5 and a half years, Wildcat TMA has had to fold it's tent. Poor attendances over the last year or so, a dwindling membership (people leaving the area etc.) has meant that we have become unable to carry on.
BGPR, it may help to explain your success that you have a heck of a lot of people down your way ! ;0)
Here's what we've done over the last 5 1/2 years.

SEPT. 2001 DOUBLE BILL : GORDON GUNN BAND (WICK) & THREE PEACE SWEET (ORKNEY)
OCT BRUCE MacGREGOR & FRIENDS / SUPPORT: MIKE KEAVEY
NOV SESSION A9. CHARLIE McKERRON & BAND
DEC TAM WHITE & NEIL WARDEN

2002
FEB ’02 WILDCAT ‘ ON THE PURROWL’…THE BEST OF LOCAL ACTS
MAR SARAH GREY. AMERICAN SINGER & BANJOIST
APRIL ROBIN LAING ….’ THE ANGEL’S SHARE’
MAY NORMAN STEWART
JULY CRAOBH RUA
AUG COLCANNON….FROM AUSTRALIA
SEPT FON A BHORD
OCT MIKE WHELANS
OCT PADDY GLACKIN & MICHEAL O’DOHMNAILL.. BOTHY BAND FOUNDERS!!!!
NOV 22 JIM REID

2003
FEB THREE PEACE SWEET
MAR DAVE GOULDER…THE JANUARY MAN HIMSELF!
APR BILL JONES & SARAH WRIGHT
MAY HAREM SCAREM
JUNE FRED MORRISON (EX CAPERCAILLIE) & JAMIE McMENEMY ( EX BATTLEFIELD)
JULY RORY McLEOD
AUG ERIC BOGLE & JOHN MUNRO
SEPT JOHN SPILLANE.. IRISH MERCURY MUSIC AWARD WINNING SINGER SONGWRITER
OCT STEVE KAUFMAN..3 TIMES USA NATIONAL CHAMPION FLATPICKER!
NOV EDDIE WALKER
NOV CANTRIP

2004
JAN 12 AARON JONES & CLAIRE MANN
FEB 13 JIM HUNTER & JIM MICHIE
MAR. MIRK with BRIAN MILLER & GAVIN LIVINGSTONE
APR 26 COAL PORTERS
MAY 4 ALAN REID & ROB VAN SANTE
JUNE 17 MICHAEL MARRA & LIZ LOCHEAD — “IN FLAGRANT DELICHT”
JULY 15 TAM WHITE + JOOST
JUL 29th ADRIAN BYRON BURNS
AUG 5 COLCANNON
SEPT 14 STEVE KAUFMAN
OCT 15 NORMAN STEWART
NOV 20 VIN GARBUTT

2005
KIERAN HALPIN
LYRA CELTICA
IAN DAVISON & ADAM McCULLOCH
TOM & BARBARA BROWN (DEVON)
SARA GREY & KIERON MEANS
WILDCAT ON THE PROWL! Local Artistes.
MICK WEST BAND
THE MIDDEN
TICH FRIER
COCKERSDALE
EMILY DRUCE & STEVE JONES + Johnny Handle in support
PRESTON REED
EDDIE WALKER

2006
LYRA CELTICA
JIM HUNTER & JIM MICHIE
SHEPHEARD, SPIERS & WATSON
JIM PAYNE & FERGUS O''BYRNE
"FOLK CLUB" SESSION
SALTFISHFORTY
ERIC BOGLE & JOHN MUNRO
BEVERLEY SMITH & CARL JONES
TOMMY & MOYA SANDS
ARCHIE FISHER

2007
ROBIN LAING
GEORGE PAPAVGERIS
MICHAEL MARRA

It was good while it lasted!

The selection of artistes can be quite a dilemma for club organisers. They need to get the balance right between booking established artistes who are well known and popular and can be guaranteed to draw a reasonable crowd; and on the other hand encouraging new, young performers or artistes from other areas, who because they are unknown may not attract a large enough audience to cover their costs.

Even the biggest names of today were new and unknown at some point in their careers, but how many clubs are in a position to take a gamble and maybe lose money on a series of gigs. I suppose the answer is to plan the programme over a period to provide a mix of 'safe' (but expensive) and 'risky' (but cheaper) performers - and hope that everything balances out financially at the end of the day.

And apart from money, the club needs to keep its members and other visitors satisfied, which may be put at risk if too many less successful bookings are made when a 'new' band turns out to be a bit of a disappointment.

We live in the Borders and have been attending events in Peebles and Traquair which have all been first class and very much of a high standard.

Regarding your last point, Mick, why on earth would anyone want to book a "new band which turned out to be a bit of a disappointment".

Is that not a recipe for disaster?

Surely those who book the acts must first of all want to give them a booking because they are making music of a standard that regulars and visitors are going to enjoy.

It must be less risky to give lesser known acts a support slot then see what the audience feels about them.

Fiddlesticks - "why on earth would anyone want to book a "new band which turned out to be a bit of a disappointment"."

Obviously the organisers wouldn't "want" to book poor bands. But new artistes are by definition more of an unknown quantity whose live performance might not turn out to be as good as they sounded on their demo or their CD, or who did not live up to recommendation. That is precisely my point - how much of a gamble can a club take on an artiste who is not tried and tested?

Its great going to folk concert knowing you can blow the act of the stage with your Fender Stratocaster and wah wah pedal and also going home knowing you could do a better gig on a shandy and you always wake up still a Batchelor .with a bottle of iron brew and your banjo out of tune with a warrent for your arrest from the nieghbors again .

hi frank,

sorry to hear you re calling it a day. we had a great time at our gig in thurso, and enjoyed your hospitality very much.

don't know what the answer is, unfortunately. but i do have a suggestion....

went to see michael marra the other night at woodwick house in orkney (excellent btw). the lad from woodwick came on after the break and asked everybody to sign up for an email list, which struck me as a very good way of letting the people who re interested know what's happening.

i only noticed the marra gig was on by chance because i was looking at all the jumble sale ads in the local paper:-)

Did I miss the point of this thread did it mean How do we grag people oot of hooses with funny names and a promise .How do organisers organise .Whats the secret of enternal youth for folkies ?

Hi Brian, glad you enjoyed your visit as much as our crowd did. We had an extensive e-mail list for letting people know what was happening, but it just didn't seem to work. Hey ho, that's the way it crumbles cookiewise I suppose!

JohnnyG, time fir yir bed ma loon!

Hi Frank. Sorry hear about your decision to pull the plug. Are folks up there still content to sit in front of the telly at the weekends?
Will your local newspaper not give yo some column inches to get a healthy debate going?

Mick - the point you make about booking acts on the strength of a demo tape or CD is an important one and might reveal a bad practice weakness if any clubs are doing this. We would never give anyone a booking on the strength of recorded material, or even a word-of-mouth recommendation. To do that is to treat your audience with a lack of respect.
That is precisely why we went to Dublin at the weekend to hear Beoga "live". Their CD is great but there is no way we were going to book them on the strength of that.

The problem with that approach, BGPR, is that, if everyone did it, no new act would ever get a gig. There are some brave souls out there, thank goodness, who are prepared to take a chance, but they are few and far-between, unfortunately. As someone who's been on the wrong side of this particular fence for several years, sending out CDs, offering to play for cut-price fees and/or free support slots, etc., I've more or less given up now, having become totally disillusioned with the whole charade. To paraphrase Tom Waits, "the overwhelming urge to play Kelso has left me!" (no disrespect to DK and KFC - just an example).

There is no "problem" with that approcah. It is the only approach that works. We give new acts support slots all the time to give them an opportunity. There is no way we would ever book any headliner "blind".
We travel far and wide in order to see bands and solo artistes "live", and that includes going to festivals in Spain, France, Canada and USA.
That way, no one is ever disappointed and we are able to boast that we run two of the most popular venues which attract capacity crowds every time.
We are talking about getting a formula in place that works and that formula includes provision of showcase opportunities for lesser-known acts.
The "brave" souls who support our efforts are the people who spend their money to buy a ticket feeling confident that they are going to be in for another cracking night as they have never been disappointed. Hopefully they do not feel they are "taking a chance".

BGPR,

Much as I respect all the work you do to promote music(esp American) over here, I'd suggest that not every folk club organiser has the luxury of being able to go and hear every act live before they are offered a booking. Most of us don't have the time or money...I'm sure the membership wouldn't let us use the funds for this either. :-)
Actually, I've got to hear a lot more than most over the years but it's obviously impossible to check out everyone. So, we have to consider some artists on the basis of CDs, previous work in other collaborations, and occasionally "word of mouth" from respected sources like yourself, for instance!
We've got The Cathy Ryan Band coming in May whom we haven't ..yet.seen live...although I remember Cathy well from her Cherish The Ladies days. I'm sure you'll agree that we'll be on safe enough ground there.

Also, you have admitted elsewhere that your guests or, at least, those you act for are "cherry picked". I'm not criticising you for this but not all folk clubs, especially weekly ones, can work on this basis. As Mick says, many clubs(inc EFC) see it as part of their duty to encourage new, up and coming, or visiting acts. Of course, we don't ...deliberately... book acts which are musically disappointing and we *do* try out lots of them as supports , in the first instance. However, whereas the quality of the music might be excellent, many of the newer acts just don't have quite the same "pulling power" and we don't always get as big an audience as they deserve.
Also, there are those artists who we *know* from previous experience will provide an evening of high quality entertainment but will only appeal to a limited number of people. I also feel that it is important that they be given an opportunity to appear too. We know that it won't be a full house but, hopefully, we'll still get a fairly good turn out of those who are really interested.

Having said that, I do agree that it is important to see bands and artists perform live if possible. However, it's not always an exact indicator of how well an act will "go down" in your own club. Sometimes, they just don't "fit in" but, on other occasions, we might be pleasantly surprised.
It's a much better guide than CDs or demos, though.

BGPR - it's your club, you're entitled to run it any way you see fit and good luck to you. I just find that approach a bit dispiriting, that's all - personally, I like to see clubs be a bit more adventurous and encourage new, particularly local, talent. Let's face it, somebody had to give all these acts, that you're happy to book, their first break.