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Scottish and Celtic Music Discussion
Grumpy Old Folkies
Onny
Posts: 12842
Posted: 08-Mar-2007 10:30
I wonder if bigmooth or Fiddle It "Folkies in well paid jobs or with fat pensions expecting performers to play for CRAP wages they would never accept (best point yet)." have anyone in mind?
JAJ
Posts: 14803
Posted: 08-Mar-2007 12:03
While I don't think it's fair that "Folkies in well paid jobs or with fat pensions" should exploit performers, their existence must indicate that musicians and performers in general can't, won't, or, in many cases, be bothered to organise things for themselves.

Perhaps, you might also like to argue that it's a always a case of "stepping into dead (wo)mans' shoes" before younger and/or any other people can get a chance to be involved in organisation. However, I don't see queues of people itching to get involved in organising folk gigs or events whether as volunteers or otherwise. If somebody wants to make a lot of money out of organising and promoting music, I'm sure they'd choose a different genre.

I doubt if I have a "big fat pension" so it's unlikely that they're referring to me, Onny.
Quite a few of my colleagues in folk music circles have well paid jobs though. :-)

bigmooth
Posts: 1751
Posted: 08-Mar-2007 12:51
Onny, of course I have people in mind. Fortunately not many, but the few there are make me grumpy! There are clubs that try to beat people down in price and some of these are run by folk who have a very comfortable lifestyle themselves.
We have what I consider to be a reasonably comfortable lifestyle but we don't try to skin performers at our club. Nor do I expect to be paid a crap fee because I have a reasonably well paid "real" job .
There's a balancing act that should not just be about how cheaply you can acquire an act for your club/festival but there are an unfortunate few who take the **.
Onny
Posts: 12842
Posted: 08-Mar-2007 13:42
So let's have some names, then.

It can't be fair that some seasoned performers are privvy to info that the tutors can't or won't impart to RSAMD students.

Unity is strength, remember.

EFCinfo
Posts: 3148
Posted: 08-Mar-2007 13:45
"There are clubs that try to beat people down in price". True, just as some performers and agents will try to get the highest possible fees they can.
I thought this was called *negotiation*.

At our club, it can be possible for artists to earn much more than the arranged fee if they attract a large enough crowd. Senga McGlumpher(Onny's pal), for instance, could walk out with as much money as The McCalmans if she had a full house. In such cases, we obviously don't grudge this. In fact, we are delighted..both for the artists and the extra buzz it brings to the club.

Of couse, there's also occasions when we ought to and do increase our admission charges to accomodate those artists who can..deservedly..command much higher fees. As long as people come through the door, the ticket prices can be as high as you like £8, £10, £20... the sky's the limit.

I can also appreciate that many smaller clubs don't have the same scope to attract larger audiences and artists might not expect to negotiate the same arrangement with different organisers.

Oops. By the way, these are my comments and not necessarily those of EFC, although I hope they wouldn't disagree.

John J

JAJ
Posts: 14803
Posted: 08-Mar-2007 14:00
I should add that it's certainly not been unknown for certain folk club *members* and audiences to complain that performers might be getting paid too much but committee members and organisers generally know better or soon learn.
bigmooth
Posts: 1751
Posted: 08-Mar-2007 17:37
Agree entirely with John J and I did make the point that it's a balancing act for the clubs. First hand experience tells me the same thing. I also get grumpy with bands/performers who have unrealistc expectations, so of course it cuts both ways. A balancing act that alone makes me grumpy.
And I'm not naming people because others might have had a different experience with them. And clubs "change hands" and this can mean different attitudes.
My post was about things that get me grumpy.
Onny you can write in about naming and shaming failures making you grumpy. Amongst other things.
Onny
Posts: 12842
Posted: 08-Mar-2007 17:52
Does that mean you're not prepared to tell us who these "Folkies in well paid jobs/with pensions expecting performers to play for CRAP wages they would never accept" or that you don't know?
johnnyguitar
Posts: 2035
Posted: 08-Mar-2007 23:31
I think the children have a right to be grumpy .
Like when you visit your Uncle who insists on playing his latest tune on the banjo ,just about every visit at the same time of day .Untill he was caught out with broken string .It was the same time the ice cream came round and he was drowning out the chimes .The meen old ...........grumpy old banjo player .
Tattie Bogle
Posts: 3837
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 00:46
People who try to hijack yer song in a session: try to make it go faster or slower, pound their feet on the floor to try to get it up to rock'n roll speed, change key,etc. (I also put this on a thread on Mudcat re "worst session rudeness ever": the thread went on into the 100s of postings so seems there's a lot of session rudeness about!)
wherriebob
Posts: 1478
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 02:12
Everyone should get the same fee as Dick Gaughan. We've tried to appply that notion as far as possible. Seems ti have worked so far.
Over to you D...set the fees!
Raghnall dearag
Posts: 233
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 09:36
Tattie Bogle said "I also put this on a thread on Mudcat re "worst session rudeness ever": the thread went on into the 100s of postings so seems there's a lot of session rudeness about!"

Or perhaps there are just hundreds of Grumpy Old Folkies about.

JAJ
Posts: 14803
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 11:10
"Everyone should get the same fee as Dick Gaughan"


Well, in our club, providing we have the same ticket price for that particular gig and the artist can pack the venue as Dick usually does, then they actually can get the same fee. :-)

MakTheKnife
Posts: 7
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 11:24
A slightly contentious one this;

Bad Session etiquette -

People who hold/ lead a session - pick up their instrument and think it gives them the right to be obnoxious or just downright rude to others who happen along. If the gloves/fiddle /guitar were off and they were standing 'off-duty' in the pub they would get what for...... grrrrrrrrrrr

strungoot
Posts: 70
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 11:42
Bodhran players wha appear fi naewhere and cannae keep time... Half o` them dinnae ken which end o` the stick tae use...GOF ;-)
bigmooth
Posts: 1751
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 13:14
Onny, Yes I know and yes, I'm not telling. My experience might have been differnt from other people's but the thread is about what makes us grumpy. And I have had cases where this attitude has prevailed and has made me grumpy. And for the last time I'm not telling who it was made me grumpy for that particular reason.
Tattie Bogle
Posts: 3837
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 14:05
Raghnall, don't think they have to state their ages when posting, so who knows if they're old?
But going back to the top of the thread, yes, there could be the makings of another TV prog in the "Grumpy old....." series, but as it's Folk, they'd put it on BBC4 well after midnight, if at all! Just another thing to get grumpy about!
Nìall Beag
Posts: 2233
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 16:07
"Bodhran players wha appear fi naewhere and cannae keep time... Half o` them dinnae ken which end o` the stick tae use...GOF ;-)"

Have we met?

In my defence, I was probably very drunk. And if ye cannae haud yer tipper, ye shouldnae be playin. A lesson now learned :-(

strungoot
Posts: 70
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 16:34
Terry Wogan huz TOG`s I wid be mair than happy to be a GOF....!!!!! Dress in black an get ma nose pierced a hunner times....Learn the bodhran etc. ha ha ha .......:-)
johnnyguitar
Posts: 2035
Posted: 09-Mar-2007 17:07
I have been part scroting a play called The Lock in.
and many points from this thread is the biggest part of it open a window into this world .The easy bit is getting a few of you together set up a bar on stage or whereever audiance mingles with there bear ect and we have a Ricky Gervias type session with these grumpy bits exagerated a a few special guests and volenteers . Any venues in mind .A good Edinburgh Festival event maybe .ie the grass market for a freebie ...... kept the beer wrong spelling in .
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